What leads people to drink in excess? On this episode, we discuss what took us from drinking for socialization to drinking for escapism and how we've avoiding restarting that cycle.
Welcome to 12 ounces sobriety podcast. My name is pat sharp here with my. Fabulous cohost Robbie and Carson. Welcome guys. Uh, it's on Monday again, recording on Monday, everybody have a good weekend. Absolutely. It was phenomenal. Nice and relaxing. Very, very hot as usual here in Charlotte humidity of about 98% and 103 degrees, but I survived it.
Mom's alright. I played golf yesterday and we teed off at. 10 after two. So like just dead of the heat of the day. And it was hot. I did not play well. And on the 17th hole, I stepped in a fire ant patch and got bit on my ankle. I think I counted about 14 bites or stings, I should say. So that was a little rough.
But other than that, it was a good weekend. What'd you shoot? I'm not gonna say because it was the worst score. Probably in the last few years I've had it. Wasn't the worst I've hit the ball. I just was all over the place left and right. So, but I hit, today's hit 130 days for me, which it's crazy to think about, you know, 130 days.
It really is. I mean, it's the longest I've been sober before and you know, every time you get to like that next 10, you're just like, you know, it, it. It's kind of hard to believe to an extent. And I'm like, I can't believe, but it seems like it's been forever. I mean, with all the stuff that we've done with the recovery programs that we've been through starting this podcast and doing this and working, and just always, constantly working on myself.
It seems like I've been doing it forever and then, you know, 130 days. So keep pushing with it, you know, I know, are you at a hundred yet? Are you close to it? I am knocking on the door. I'm at 98 days today. So we are there. We're almost all three to triple digits. So that's awesome. Congrats on your one 30 that's that's super two 30.
How many days are you at 165? 165 plus 2 30, 3 30. So we're over a year combined. That's awesome. When we started this, we were, I don't know, about nine months combined. so we're going in the right direction. Yeah. Today. Not, not even, not even nine months. Probably more like five. When we started, I was just around 90 days.
Carson, you were around 60. Yeah. And you were probably four, four and a half. It was like 1 25 or something like that. Cause he was trying to calculate it and I told him he didn't have a good app. Yeah, that's true. So give or take, but I'd say maybe eight months when you aggregated all though, there's a lot of soberness, our first recording, which, which I, I never want to go back and listen to, cuz it's gotta be terrible.
So give us grace for listening that give us grace. So today we are going to talk about, you know, trauma in life and kind of the reason we're talking about trauma is, you know, leading kind of back to why we drink and, and how we got to where we are, you know, Alcoholism and drug addiction or any type of addiction for that matter.
You know, I, I do think some of us are predisposed to it. It is in our DNA. However, some of us are not in, there's always something there, like, why did we get to where we were with, you know, alcohol or drugs and things like that. And, you know, I've been in plenty of classes that, that have talked about it a lot, a lot of people like.
Talk about childhood trauma. You know, I think we had somebody in our group even talk about like everybody that's an addict has some form of childhood trauma. And I think that is completely false. You know? Um, the trauma I had, I think was all in adulthood and, and we'll talk about that a little bit, but kind of more or less why we drink and why we drink to access and get into that a little.
Absolutely. Now, I'm glad we are bringing this topic to the table because when you think alcohol and you think the reasons why people drink a lot of times, the immediate thing that comes to mind is to have fun or to, you know, use it as a social lubricant as you will. But there are so many other reasons, hence that, you know, the kind of the trauma reality of it and why other people, they drink to run away instead of drink, to remember and live in that moment.
So this is something that we've gotten a lot of great feedback for and something. Uh, you guys at home would, you know, really want to hear about, so I'm, I'm glad we're diving into. yeah, but you said like social lubricant, but that's a lot of the reasons why I started drinking.
I mean, I don't know. You go back to like my teenage years. It's fun to experiment and just kind of go back to our topic about society, romance, romanticizing, alcohol, and I think that's kind of one of those things. It was like you're expected to experiment. You're expected to kind of push the boundaries as a kid.
Um, as a teenager college, you know, in high school and you're drinking, then I remember in college it was became more SOC you know, you go to college, you don't really know anybody, but you start drinking and hanging. You know, your social circle grows and grows and grows. And so you associate drinking with, you know, socializing and having fun.
and then, you know, it just kind of grows from there. And, and that's kind of what happened to me is, you know, I started in college drinking, , heavier and heavier, you know, with the socialization and having fun and meeting people. It's a great way to do it, you know, and going to the bars, going to house parties in the summer, going the pool, drinking all day, going to the lake, going to the beach, you know, everything we did revolved around.
And I think the first trauma or I had a rough experience with my adulthood when I was 23 or 24, my best friend was killed in a car accident. And I remember, you know, dealing with that with a lot of drinking. And of course I kind of, you know, as time goes on, you get kind of get over those things. But I had moved down to the beach with some buddies and, you know, I got a job with a beer distributor and that was very a focused, obviously we're selling beer and we're drinking a lot of beer cuz we all hated our jobs and.
After work, we'd all get together drinking, just bitch about how much we hated our jobs. Yeah. And you made a good point there it's it oftentimes starts as a, you know, as a reason to, to have fun, to, to let loose a little bit. And I think oftentimes I can certainly speak for myself. Alcohol was never in my life.
For those, you know, for the trauma related reasons at the beginning, it was only two one because you know, that was kind of the cool thing to do. 18, 19 20. You're getting introduced into it maybe a little bit earlier and you start having fun. You start attending parties and going to bars when you're of age and all that good stuff.
And I think one big question that you have to ask yourself is the why, why are you drinking? And oftentimes we, it kind of slips under the cracks of why you are. So for me personally, It started off as a fun thing. But as you know, life events, as you, as you put it, rough life events happen or trauma, or it starts to come to the surface, you start drinking for other reasons.
And oftentimes people don't see when that transition is made. And that is oftentimes why people do drink for the wrong reasons. And they don't even know why they're doing. So I think it's good. A good reality check to be able to take a look at the mirror, maybe look it back, you know, wave you're drinking a lot and say, you know, what, why am I doing this?
Is it to escape? Or is it because I have fun? It, it might be for a bad reason altogether, but trauma is, is certainly a reason why a lot of people tend to, um, tend to indulge quite frequently. I'm in the school of thought where I do think everybody's got a certain, , trauma, , you know, the way. See it, I guess, is like, you know, anything that really, uh, creates some sort of panic, at least at some point was learned.
, you know, and for me, , like this is one example. Of of a few. It's like, , it was in seventh grade, my short term non-real girlfriend, but girlfriend at the time, , we, we had been dating for a week holding hands. Yeah. Well, I don't know. That's too far. That was too far. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, come on. You're in south grade.
You guys probably making out, took, okay. All right. Yeah. Any human, but. Anyway, she cheated on me and yeah. You know, how does one cheat on somebody in seventh grade? We were emotionally bonded. I'm not trying to, I'm trying to, this was a trial, keep going, going, still laugh about it. But anyway, like for that, I think in high school led to like, when I'd go to parties, if there were girls there and stuff like that, I was like, really like, nervous about.
I'd get that panicky feeling and, , You know, that was something worth drinking over for me, you know, to take a little drinky pill, you know, guess what I wasn't, I wasn't so nervous anymore. That liquid confidence. Yeah. Right. You know, I was listening and that's, that's, that's a little trauma that's ND is like the little tea trauma and they got the big tea trauma.
Yeah. Yeah. I was listening yesterday to, , a book that we're going to take a deep dive into here within the next week or two. On an episode called alcohol explaining. And I was listening to the audio book of it while I was running some errs yesterday and early on talking about alcohol, being a depressant and how it causes depression and anxiety, just, you know, you don't even have to be an alcoholic for it to cause that.
And so, you know, when you cover up all your problems with. And it's going to cause you to become more depressed and more anxious, over little things that you shouldn't even be anxious and worried about. So then you take a bigger trauma or a big tea, like you had just mentioned, and you add on the amount of drinking you've been doing.
It's going to multiply your emotions to that event times, you know, a hundred because. It is just depressing you more and more. And granted we use it as a coping mechanism because it makes you feel better in the moment temporarily. Yeah. But it's a temporary and, but you feel 10 times worse afterwards, but you don't, a lot of people don't get that association with it.
They don't see that correlation of feeling even worse because that alcohol or drug or anything like that's making you actually feel worse. Yeah. It, it increases irritability. It increases anxiety and depression and all of these feelings that you are attempting to swipe under the rug and to get away from.
But in all reality, it, like you just said, it exacerbates the issues and whether, you know it or not, some people just don't care for me. I did know the adverse effects of drinking, but in that moment, that's all I cared about. So I wanted the immediate gratification. I wanted the immediate relief from all of those feelings that I was, you know, on a constant basis that were coming up.
And I knew that it was gonna bite me in the ass, but in that current moment in time, I just Swed under the rug. And that's what creates that constant drinking is because you wake up and, you know, you need to get away from it temporarily. So you drink again, and then it turns out into the string of events.
The next thing you know, you drank 30, 40 days in a row. Well, I didn't, I'm gonna say, I necessarily didn't even know. think a lot of people are kind of in this same boat that. You're drinking to cover stuff up, but you don't realize it in the moment that you're making it worse. You think you are making it better.
And you're thinking a lot of times, I know for me, I would drink to forget and it would work, but those feelings are still inside of you and they need to, you know, come out. And so those are gonna cause more stress. And more depression, more anxiety because you're bottling all that stuff up and you're just pouring alcohol on it, or you're pouring drugs on it or whatever you're doing to pour on top of it.
As they, as a coping mechanism for it. and at some point you gotta, you gotta work out those solutions. And a lot of people, when they get sober, that's something they have to really work on it. You know, for me, it's something I had to do because all your coping skills are driven by a substance. And, you know, you get rid of that.
You get rid of that substance. And for the first time in your life, you can truly actually feel emotion. That you're not covering up with alcohol or with drugs, and then you gotta, you know, oh shit, how do I deal with this? And we'll get into kind of coping skills later down the road, but that's something I've really worked on in those 130 days is really, you know, working on my emotions and, and how to process things with a sober mind.
And since I've really worked on that, I mean, I'm a better and happier person all around. Guilt and shame is a byproduct of excess drinking in general. But if you already are feeling those and you have guilt about things, which is a little bit more temporary, shame is kind of more the long lasting effects of maybe something that you did in your life or something.
That's really just bothering you. That's creates this pool of pity. , but in all reality, alcohol can create that out of nowhere anyways. And that's another thing that people need to realize is even if there's not something in your life that is necessarily tearing at you, if you do introduce an excess amount in, in of alcohol, It will create things, problems that you didn't even know you had, or you didn't have prior to that.
And that's another thing that alcohol can do when treat. The wrong way and, and abused from a, , biological standpoint. It's interesting how trauma and alcohol both affect your brain. It's like a certain level of similarity in that, , you know, in both instances, the activity in your prefrontal cortex goes down.
So your decision making and stuff like that is, is not a sound. , also both increase activity in your amygdala, which can sort of create a state of panic. , so, you know, with alcoholism or drug addiction or whatever that be, uh, if you have trauma that anxiety is gonna shoot up. And alcohol can cover that with drugs.
And then, but then when you're withdrawing from alcohol or drugs, very similar panic shoots up that need to drink in order to cover that. Yeah, it. And that comes really, you know, that hits, you know, home for me, especially the panic and the anxiety, because I got to the point, if I wasn't drinking, I basically felt like I was having a panic attack where I was having a panic attack, you know?
And like you said, like the big traumas I know for me, , for example, I, when I was married, my ex-wife, she had a couple of miscarriages and the atopic pregnancy and, and when she would go through those, I would always just wanna make sure she was okay and I never processed it myself. We would both just, we drank a lot anyways.
And so I would make sure she's okay. And I just drank a lot and figured, you know, oh, well shit happens. And then meeting with a therapist, finally, once I get sober, realized I had some unresolved, you know, emotions tied to that and, and work through it. And, you know, I could tell it's made a difference. So, you know, people out there, you, you look at.
Things like that. You think that they're not affecting you, but cuz you're covering everything up with, with the alcohol or the drugs and you're burying that shit deep down inside of you and it is still affecting you. You just don't, you know, see it, it could be in your subconscious, it could be just in the back of your mind, but it's gonna, cause like you were saying the depression, the anxiety, the panic, that all comes up and you think the only way to deal with.
is by using and, you know, and you just keep kind of going in that cycle and you get to the point like where I did. And I think we all did where you just constantly have to drink all the time, because if you don't, you just feel like shit, you're depressed. You have anxiety, you have panic. And then you realize you can't live life like this anymore.
And you start getting the suicidal thoughts. You start really trying to understand, you know, what in the hell's going on because you're so miserable. panic attacks are not fun. I think anyone who has experienced one or multiple ones just know that it's a terrible, terrible feeling. I, during the course of my drinking experienced quite a lot of panic attacks, , you know, your palms are sweaty.
knees weak. Mom's serious. Arms are heavy. no, but on a serious note, uh, when you wake up when your heart is palpitating and you feel like, you know, everything is wrong and in all reality, not much is wrong. You people talk about hangovers. Oh, I was sick or, oh, I, you know, felt like I couldn't do anything. I was hazy that is mild compared to what a panic attack can do.
And the reason I bring that up is because, so, you know, so many times I would wake up in this sheer panic and. I wasn't addressing the fact that it was because of alcohol. I was blaming it on events in my life, whether it be a past trauma, whether it be stress, whether whatever you wanna fill in the blank with.
, and when I stopped drinking, I haven't had a panic attack since and almost a hundred days. And I'm not saying that I can't have one, but it's a very clear sign that, that alcohol was making everything worse. It was this long loop of just sheer anxiety and panic and. All I was doing was making it worse by drinking for that temporary fix, but it was prolonging the problem to an extent which I couldn't handle, which is one of the many reasons why I sought out help.
And me you guys. So keeping that in mind and understanding that alcohol is not the fix, whatever you're going through. There are many other healthy ways to deal with this, which we can certainly address. We've already discussed this before, but we will continue to discuss this because coping mechanisms are always gonna be a vital part of our lives.
And we might come up with some new ones. And if you have any that you use that you'd like for us to share on the podcast, please send us a message, cuz we'd love to know and share it with every.
Avoidance behavior, what you just said reminds me of avoidance behavior. And you know, it's in both trauma and alcoholism, alcoholism itself, and in addiction I think are a form of avoidance behavior. , well it's a hundred percent avoidance behavior. Yeah. I know with my alcoholism, a lot of it was evolved of just avoiding shit.
Yeah. Well, and that's, that's the thing with trauma. It. You know, if especially you have PTSD, like avoidance behavior is, you know, pretty, pretty common, so, so it's like in recovery, a lot of the stuff that I used to avoid, like a man, I can remember like public speaking. Whew. That's A's a big one. I drink before public speaking. I've done that before. I've done it too. Yeah. You know, that's one of the things in recovery it's like, oh, well I can't avoid this anymore.
So I have to like face it sober. That's horrifying, but you know, I can't say on the opposite end, once you're done doing it. It at least feels like, like I accomplished something, even if it, even if I feel like it went pretty bad. Yeah. I mean, I avoided most adulting things towards the end, my last year or so of drinking when things got really bad, you know, I avoided pain bills.
I avoided making plans. I avoided doing anything that had me with it held me accountable with, for anything, any sort of responsibility. I, I just avoided it and. A lot of that was just because I was always drinking and I knew a lot of things would interrupt my drinking. And so if it was going to interrupt at any way, shape or form, then I wouldn't do it.
Procrastination. Obviously we've, we've discussed this a number of times, but it is, it is a BI byproduct of drinking. A lot of people procrastinate in general. I've always been a, a pretty damn good procrastinator, but when I was drinking, it was much easier to push it to the. Uh, I used to have a box in my car and, um, I would put all my mail in it.
If it was a bill, I'd put it in there. And I would tell, uh, I would tell people, I'd say, yeah, if it's in the box, I don't have to worry about it. It just doesn't matter. That was my own justification. And it was stupid, cuz I didn't believe that, but I just put it in the box and overdue due bills. I was getting calls from debt collectors, small bills that I didn't wanna handle.
I would just put it in the box and keep on drinking. That did not work. Yeah. I still had to pay. I was the same way. , yeah, it definitely procrastinated on a lot of things and, and we, I mean, we could do a whole episode on procrastination, but I think everybody out there should we'll push it off. Will procrastinate.
Yeah. Well, I don't necessarily know if we need to talk about that just because I think we're all very aware and I think people are listening. You know, when you're abusing drugs or alcohol or, you know, any other substance or any other addiction, you're definitely going to prioritize that as number one and everything else in your life is going to, you know, kind of go to the wayside except one or two things, you know, I don't know where it will.
It was somebody telling us a story about this, , a doctor where he was in medical. And he was the number one, like student in his class and everything. , and he was a severe alcoholic and the rest of his life was just such a disaster because the only thing he focused on was school and drinking. And because he was still able to focus on one thing, but he couldn't focus on.
Anything else because of the alcoholism and, you know, you can, you can get to that single track mind. And so, you know, I just think a lot of what we're trying to get to though is, you know, why did we drink, you know, of kind of covering things up and kind of taking a, a hard look at that and seeing, okay, well, why was I drinking?
And if you can start kind of solving those problems and getting help and working through those things, you can avoid falling back in those old habit. a lot of people deal with some sort of PTSD and everybody deals with tough life situations. There's a reason why there are so many 12 step programs that are scattered around most major cities. Um, there's a reason why, I mean, you look at PTSD and think about how many different causes there are for something like that. , we already briefly mentioned childhood trauma, but that's only a small ink.
Of what can be causing the issues that you have. There's all kinds of abuse from emotional to, you know, physical and sexual, , there's war and military combat. You know, when you think PTSD, I think most people I know I do. I immediately think of veterans who have. Been on the front lines and have seen some terrible, terrible things.
Yeah. But there's so many more places where right. People have PTSD. I mean, even, you know, you hear a lot about it with mothers. Mm-hmm um, having it after, you know, childhood yep. Postpartum. Right, right. Exactly. No, the reason, no, I completely agree. And the reason I brought up war is there's I, I know that they have a lot of strong programs.
Folks that are in the military or for veterans. , because that is a very, that's a common thing is once they, you know, they're discharged or they, or they lead the military or whatever happens, , they tend to go to drinking. And I'm not trying to put everyone in a box here. I'm just saying that that is a common thing, but it, like you just said, you know, stress and depression.
Most people I know have dealt with that. And so, um, when you do experience PTSD, you are more inclined to be susceptible to alcoholic symptoms, and a lot of people do fit that criteria. So being aware of that and aware of why you are drinking again, I will not to be the dead horse, but you really do need to evaluate that in order to seek some help and, and get all of that out of your system.
Appropriately and responsibly one thing that's pretty cool is nowaday for the treatment of PTSD. A lot of actually rehab facilities do specialize in EMDR, which is, , eye movement. The sensitization reprocessing. I believe, I believe it's at yeah, something like that. And, , You know, from everybody that I know that has, you know, gone through EMDR treatment, they all like stand by it.
They think it's like, great. Can you get a little bit more into what that is? so if you know, yeah, so I, I, this is very, very. general again, we're not explanation of it. Yeah. I'm not a professional on the side. What is it called again? It's odd movement. Desensitization reprocesing or EMDR. I believe that's, that's what it's answering, but, um, you've never heard, but what happens is it it, while you're recalling one of the traumas, , forgot, I guess your eyes are moving one way or the other.
They have you like looking one way or the other. It causes the, , another part of your brain to be activated. And I think it just draws some sort of association, but it. Somehow it, it, it does some crazy stuff. I, I can read the, the Google search if you guys would like, please do, please do that. Eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing is a form of psychotherapy developed by Francine Shapiro in the 1980s.
That was originally designed to alleviate the, the distress associated with traumatic memories, such as PTSD in M MDR, the person being treated recalls, distressing experiences whilst doing bilateral stimulation. Such as side to side, eye movement or physical stimulation, such as tapping either side of the body.
Interesting. Yeah. I've heard of like tapping or like rubbing your arm and, and different things like that to just to feel a little different sensation because it triggers something else in your head. If you're feeling stressed out, things like that. And that's something we can get in more with a therapist when we have somebody on and, um, maybe get into coping skills a little bit.
There are so many different treatments out there. And it's something that, you know, people need to look into a little bit, especially if you haven't under uncovered, you know, some of the traumas in your life or dealt with things like that. And you're still feeling the stress and anxiety and involved with those, you know, you need to work on them or else they're gonna keep causing problems.
They're, you know, gonna cause you possibly to relapse or you're gonna be a, a dry drunk where you're still living. That lifestyle as an alcoholic or a drug addict you're just not using. And so you're just dry. You're not truly sober. you'd be surprised even when you think, and you may very well have, but when you think that you've, you know, quote unquote gotten through a particular event that occurred in your life, how much it may still affect your life in certain ways.
For me, I lost my mother about 12 years ago. And then I went through an incredibly hard breakup and I thought that I had gotten through all of that and on the service I had, but then going into therapy and talking through it much more, I did realize that it was affecting a lot of things. In my marriage and affecting things in my day to day life that I wasn't really aware of.
And I was suppressing a lot of it with alcohol. And so it was really good to be able to take all of that out and look at it from a different perspective because I, for all I intents and purposes I had, I had gotten through it. I had, I had come to terms with a lot of things in all reality. The, the behavior that I had and the, maybe the things that set me off or the things that upset me, it really did have to do with things that happened a long, long time ago.
You know, I'm a big proponent, whether you're an addict or not. I think everybody should, you know, see a therapist and I mean, there's therapist for therapist, Steven. And so, you know, I just working on yourself mentally is always something that everybody can do and always can approve on. But if you're an active addiction, I assure you there's stuff that you need to work on.
And whether, you know, it's through a psychiatrist or a therapist, or, you know, things like that. And there's different ways, even, you know, some 12 step programs or similar to a form of therapy, but include therapy in your 12 step program, you know, there's, you can never do enough or too much, I should say to improve yourself.
And to work on yourself and to work on your sobriety. I think it's safe to say if you are in active ad, uh, active addiction, that there is at least one underlying problem, a hundred percent. And it could be that you're just scared shitless of boredom. I mean, it could be something as simple as that most of the time, it's probably something much deeper than that.
Yeah, or it could be something as simple as you don't know how to socialize without it. Um, you know, to work on that. And we're going to probably next up episode, talk about socializing without drinking. , you know, because I know that's a thing that a lot of people struggle with and, but something like that.
You know, a therapist can help you with that. They can literally help with anything. Um, there's different therapists out there. You know, you don't even have to go to the office anymore. There's so many different telehealth programs. Most insurances are going to have some form of, you know, they're gonna cover therapy for the most part.
A lot of people are getting, more and more people are understanding the importance of mental health. And, you know, as addicts, we need to always be mindful and working on our mental health. Because if not, it's easy to slip back in old habits. Yeah. Poor mental health can make it more difficult to live life on life's terms.
And that's, I mean, potentially why I drink. I mean, yeah. I like the way it made me feel and I liked the way it made me feel because I was uncomfortable living life the way it was. And. yeah. At, at some point, and I've probably said this before. At some point I used to have a ton of fun when I was drinking and then you'd feel terrible the next day or whatnot, but you would have fun, but at some point it just quits being fun.
It, it starts becoming a necessity your day life and. Then it's no fun anymore. And I'm telling you, once you quit and you're, you know, actively pursuing a sober life, life becomes fun again. And you realize that you do not need those substances in your life to enjoy your life and to be productive. And you'll find yourself being more productive and more, you know, reliable as a human being.
And it just, things seem to get better and better every day. And you'll also. You know, being on the topic of trauma, it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, but you will have an ability to come to terms with a lot of things that have occurred in your life. Truly come to terms and not sweeping under the rug avoidance, as we've already mentioned.
Um, because that stuff eats up. It eats you up. So you're able to really process, you know, whatever has happened to you in your life and then healthily move forward. Yeah. Again, like I said, last episode, get comfortable with being uncomfortable, seek discomfort. Yes. And with that, I think we'll wrap for today.
Again, I think we'll probably do next episode kind of how to interact in society and socialize and have fun and live life and, and do all those sorts of things. As far as having a social. Without drinking. And we'll talk about that a little bit. I think we might touch on. Non-alcoholic beverages, things like that, whether you know, like an NA beer, um, kind of our thoughts on those mocktails kind of get into that discussion a little bit, because we've had a couple emails regarding those and, and we do wanna address anything that you guys do send us.
So, um, I think that's kind what we're getting into next episode, still to be determined on any interviews that we're gonna do, but even. We will, um, also probably next week or the week after we will get into a deep dive on the book. Alcohol explained by William Porter, , which we're all three reading right now, or I'm listening to audio, uh, the audio book and I think are you two Robbie?
I am just past chapter one. Okay, so I'm, I'm reading. Yeah, we'll be there. Um, that will be something cool. So if you guys wanna check that out and then kind of hear our thoughts on it, that would be awesome. As always find us on social media, Twitter, Instagram at 12 ounces of sobriety, send us, , questions or comments or anything like that to our email, 12 ounce sobriety firstname.lastname@example.org.
And we just want to thank you for all your support once again, and we will. Now we'll do it. Thanks. C bon Voya, hush. Thank you.