12oz of Sobriety

Interview: Cassie, Substance Abuse Counselor

July 29, 2022 Pat, Robbie, and Carson Season 1 Episode 12
12oz of Sobriety
Interview: Cassie, Substance Abuse Counselor
Show Notes Transcript

On our first interview episode, we sit down with Cassie,  a substance abuse counselor at an outpatient rehab facility. Cassie provides in-depth knowledge into the world of early sobriety. 

Oh, what's up. Welcome to 12 ounce sobriety podcast. I'm pat sharp here with my wonderful coast. Robbie Carson. Welcome guys. We got an exciting show for you today. As we had mentioned on previous episodes, we are doing our first interview today. Quick check in with everyone. Uh, I don't think we've done it.

The last couple episodes. Just wanna see where you guys are. Robbie, how sobriety, where you at? I am 173 days sober. So you're, you're what? Probably 10, 15 days from the six month. Yes. Congratulations. That's awesome. Carson, I know you hit a triple digits 10, 12 days ago almost. Yeah. So I'm at 107 days currently.

Yeah. It's very exciting. Triple digits now. So we are, we're making good progress and I am at day 1 39, which is crazy to think about. And we are actually recording in the building where we all came for rehab to get sober and to think that. It's been 139 days since I first walked in here and was shaking and a mess because I was having such bad withdrawals and, and here we are now.

All sober. Yeah. It is really awesome to see things come to fruition. You know, speaking of the day, first days we came in here and I saw a photo recently of, uh, you know, when I, when I initially had bidden myself into, uh, this facility and, and I looked horrible. I know I've said that a couple times before, but I was shaking.

I, I gained a lot of weight. My face just looked pinched and. Didn't really have much life and, you know, taking that and then fast forwarding 107 days, and now we are here, uh, doing this and it's just, it's incredible. And it's, it makes it all worth it. So, yeah, absolutely. And with that, like we said, we, we have a special guest, very special guest, very special guest, very special guest, very special guess.

Well, we are very excited, um, for this interview. We've. Uh, waiting for it for a long time. And we are finally here. Um, we have a very special guest Cassie, Cassie. Thank you so much for joining us. We're really happy to have you on today and to kind of talk through really, uh, just a few things, uh, on the topic, um, of addiction and your path and your journey and any insight that you might have to share with us.

So to kind of kick us off, I'm just gonna ask you a very simple question. What do you do? What do I do? Well, first of all, thank you guys for having me. Um, I've been listening to it since day one, super proud of you guys. Um, so what I do is I am a licensed clinical addiction specialist and I'm getting ready to sit for my full clinical license in social work.

So I am currently working in an outpatient program specifically for substance use. Awesome. Awesome. How long have you been in this field? So in the field of social work itself, I graduated with my undergrad degree in oh God, 2012 and finished up my graduate degree in 2016. Um, so I've been kind of in the field here and there in different realms since 20.

Now you had mentioned being a counselor with in substance abuse. In your here at where you're doing your outpatient program, what percent would you say is alcohol versus drugs? So I think that kind of varies because we have so many different facets to our program here. Um, so what I see in the program that I'm in, um, I tend to be in the evening crew where I have a lot of professionals, people that work during the day.

And so they come in for treatment at. So I would say probably 75%, at least in the evening is strictly alcohol. I've got some people that struggle with alcohol and other drugs and, um, probably a small percentage of people that just struggle with drugs. But a lot of it has co-occurring alcohol with it. I feel like that's something that we kind of noticed as well.

Mm-hmm  throughout our journey here. Um, you know, and talking with and getting to know a lot of the people that we were here with and becoming friends with them and developing really good relationships. We, we did notice that there was somewhat of a common theme, um, just in that. A lot of, a lot of the people that, you know, we were surrounded by, we had to go in the evenings and we, we had these day jobs.

And so mm-hmm, , that is something we gather. So it's interesting to hear you kind of confirm that and, uh, it, it does make sense. Yeah. And, you know, I think it also depends on age as well. So in our day program, we have some younger folks too. And so there's more of a mixed bag of addiction and the day program as well.

So it just kind of varies honestly, from program to program here, just outta curiosity, what put you, or what made you decide. To when you decided to go into counseling mm-hmm  and made you choose substance abuse. So it's funny you ask, I actually didn't really plan on substance use. Um, it just kind of happened that way.

So I did my undergrad program in South Carolina and did a focus on military study. So yeah, totally different. I didn't know that. Yeah, totally different  but I think where I kind of stumbled into addiction is.  kind of, no matter where you go, people struggle with addiction in whatever field you're in. Um, and it wasn't something I really dealt with in my professional realm.

So I thought it was a great way to get some more experience is just kind of to dive in head first. And as I've kind of grown. Through being here, I realized how much addiction actually impacted my family and nobody talked about it. Mm-hmm  um, so it kind of was twofold. It wasn't really something I planned on, but as I got more into it, it just kind of grew into more of a passion.

We've noticed that too, since we've started doing this podcast is we're getting a lot of people responding back and telling us like, oh yeah, This is going on in my family, or I struggle with this is, is it really is everywhere, but a lot of people don't want to talk about it at all. Mm-hmm  so I grew up in a super liberal family in Massachusetts and, uh, for the most part anyways, and even then addiction and stuff was something that we didn't talk about.

I remember. My grandpa who was a vet. You know, I always remember him sitting in his same chair with a coffee cup, and I thought it was weird that he drank coffee all day long. He, he wasn't drinking coffee all day long, by the way, I just found that out recently, as I was starting to get into addiction work, it was just never something that my family talked about.

It was just kind of a known fact that that was something he struggled with, but we never talked about it. I'm just as, as pure curiosity. How did you ask him or did you, like, how did you find that out if you don't mind me asking? Like, no. So he passed when I was 12. Okay. Um, so I never talked with him about it.

Obviously. It was actually something that came up with my mom as I started working in this field and we started having conversations about it and. I kind of just blatantly asked, like, it was kind of weird. Like I always remember grandpa with the coffee cup and she was like, yeah, you know, there wasn't coffee in there.

Right? Like he wasn't drinking coffee until nine o'clock at night. And I was like, oh no, I didn't know that. But you also, you probably weren't necessarily surprised being in this field. You were like, oh, that kind of checks out. I'm sure you weren't. Yeah. Completely shocked. No, it was more of one of those like, duh, how did I not know that kind of moment?

Yeah, exactly. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Which honestly, and, and the stories that we've heard and quite frankly, Talking to my wife. Um, you know, we look back in retrospect when I, you know, was abusing alcohol and then, you know, looking back on my actions or, or, or just certain little tidbits, it was kind of like, oh duh, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm,  like, and I hate to say that, but it really is kind of a lot of, a lot of signs are there, but if you're not thinking about it, mm-hmm , and it's not on the, at the forefront of your, your brain. It's easy to let that slip through the cracks, whether it's you, whether it's somebody that you love. Sure.

And I think when it's somebody that you love, it there's even more of a blind spot there in hindsight. It's always 2020. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're, if it's a loved one you're you are always looking at the good in them. Mm-hmm  you don't necessarily wanna see the fault or you don't notice them, or you kind of turn a blind eye to those because you, like I said, you wanna see the best in those.

Yeah, no. And I'm, and the last thing I'll say on this is I, um, you know, you just mentioned, or pat, you were talking about how, you know, as we've started this podcast, as we've started to share our story a lot more, we've had bunch of people providing feedback and sharing it and, and it just kind of goes to say, you know, someone like you, Cassie, it takes people like you in professions like this, and.

We're happy to kind of be helping hand as well, just with our platform. Mm-hmm  I feel like that's the push that people need to be able to relate to hear that others are struggling mm-hmm  and that is a kind of a, a safe space in a way for others to be able to come out and share their struggles as well.

And so I guess that's kind of my segue into, as a message to our listeners. You know, if you are comfortable mm-hmm  and, and you do wanna share your story. It can only help other people. And that's the message that we're trying to share and what we're trying to do for others. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I see the most change and the most progress come from when two people share their stories together.

So we did an episode on this a couple weeks ago and you probably got some good tidbits from it. So you might be biased, but, uh, do you think we as a society romanticize alcohol? Oh, 100%. Absolutely. I mean, it's everywhere, right? Like you turn on the TV and there's. Video there's commercials about it.

There's you drive down the street, there's liquor stores on every other block. I feel like there's more liquor stores than there are dunking donuts at this point. And I mean, it's just everywhere. And also coming down here from Massachusetts, seeing alcohol sold in grocery stores is the weirdest thing to me.

Um, cuz that's not a. But it's, it really is just kind of everywhere. So do you think we should have more dunking donuts or do you think we should have less alcohol stores? I think we should have more Starbucks. I, so we meet in the middle there. Yeah, not really though.  no, it is. And it's also funny because I don't know if it's a cultural thing or a geographical thing, or maybe a mix of all of them.

You go up to the Northeast. You guys don't have alcohol in grocery stores. We do mm-hmm  but you go farther south. And I think Georgia and South Carolina could be wrong on that, but I've been to gas stations that have had liquor in them and across the street as a. Would there's liquor in our gas station.

Mm-hmm  okay. See, I didn't even know that. So it's so it's getting, yeah, that proves my point mm-hmm  and, but I remember as a 22 year old I'd walk in and I could get gas and I could get vodka in the same trip. Thought that was badass. Mm-hmm . But now. In hindsight, I'm, I'm looking at I'm like, where does it end?

Mm-hmm  it's, it's literally flooding us in every, every turn that we take everywhere we look. I mean, and even in some Southern states too, like in Texas, and I think in Vegas too, there's in some places in Louisiana as well, there's actually drive through places where you can drive through, get alcohol. You can do that.

Which wild to me, they do have that in North Carolina in some spots, they have it in Ohio. I also know, I believe in Texas as a passenger, in a vehicle, you can. And I I'm sure there's some other states like that. Probably not Utah, but some other states. Yeah. In new Orleans. Yeah. We had the drive through Dary shops.

Mm-hmm yep. That's a DUI way happen. Right. You know, I could walk over to the gas station at. Three in the morning and buy some liquor, you know, it's just how it is. There. There are like other, I guess, parishes that we call, that's what we call our counties over there. Mm-hmm  there are certain ones that are a lot more are a little bit more strict, but it's still pretty loose in general.

Yeah. And I just feel like, you know, you drive through Dery. You're probably have already been drinking. If you're up at 3:00 AM going to get a, a Dery and think about the opportunity that you have to in, in your words, take a little drinky poo , uh, or maybe five, and it's just, it's setting yourself up for failure and it's setting yourself up to get into a lot of trouble or to get somebody seriously hurt or dead mm-hmm

Yeah. And that's the big thing. If people think of DUIs, as you know, the big consequence of drinking and driving. Seriously hurting yourself or somebody else or killing somebody else is truly a huge consequence. And you see that all the time. You see that on the news every day of a, of a accident fatality involving drinking and driving.

And so that's, that's very worrisome. I think when you have drive through. You know, liquor stores or, or where you can get a, a premade drink already, you know, and, and I know we've kind of beat that to death about our society and our views on alcoholism. Mm-hmm  I don't think so. We'll probably continue to keep talking about it's a yeah, yeah.

We're gonna beat that dead horse even more. I mean, it, even in like C when restaurants closed down, they still offered take away margaritas and they just deconstructed it and you got to make it at. That is I one to their customers. I'm sure. Right.  so that's wild that we did, like, we went to that extent.

Right. Because that was part of things. And I know you guys talked about it a bunch, but I mean, I don't, I honestly don't think it can be talked about enough as how much we romanticize it as a society. Yeah. I mean, I remember speaking of speak on the topic of COVID. Um, and I'm sure my wife remembers this is I, I went to the grocery stores probably two weeks in and I was gonna stock up on food and there was a liquor store right in the parking lot.

So I naturally went over there and I was gonna get a few bottles and the line was out the door and it was wrapped around the building. And I, and I waited. I don't know what the worst part is, is I waited for probably over an hour just to get into that liquor store to make sure that we had our supplies.

Mm-hmm  and that's what everyone else was thinking too, is that was just one liquor store amongst hundreds, probably in Charlotte and around, you know, thousands and millions around the world. Mm-hmm  that's what everyone did. Were you intoxicated when you chose to go into that line?  maybe, probably, if you were like me, there's a good, there's a, I don't actually don't know the answer to that question, but if I was at the grocery store, I was drunk.

If you don't know the answers, probably. Yes. There's probably a reason. I don't know.  so you see people that come in here that are in their very, very early stages of sobriety. Mm-hmm  some of 'em just coming off of detox when you start taking, um,  so you're looking at, you know, 4, 5, 6, 7 days, and some people are coming after a 30 or 60 day stay at rehab.

Is there a certain attribute you can think of or point to that you think leads to the most success in long term sobriety from when you see somebody early on. As they continue to grow. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a few things that I see. Um, one is, and you guys know this, cuz I've said it all the time is that I don't ever see people Cartwheel in the doors here.

Right? Like nobody's super thrilled to come in, um, or not most people. So I think one thing happens with people that succeed and continue to do well in the long term is. There's some sort of switch that happens while they're here, whether they come in really excited or not, there's a switch where it goes from doing it for somebody else to doing it for myself.

Right. And when that switch happens, that helps that longevity. And part of that too, is, um, excuse me, the community supports, right? Like when, because when we look at sobriety treatment is really like a 10th of it, right? If that it's a very small window and. If you can find and build that community support outside of treatment, you're going to set yourself up for, for success because you're gonna have so many extra supports in the community to help you continue through in your sobriety.

So those are kind of the two biggest ones. And then the last one, I think that we see, which is why our program is so focused on family engagement is because your family is the ones that are gonna be there for. After treatment is over, right? So if we can get family involved and help them to understand this disease and how people are struggling, um, I think that also lends a hand.

Keeping people sober long term as well. Yeah. Yeah. It gets important where you said, you know, about community support stuff. I remember early on when I was here and I was in the night session and we had some people that had been through the program, you know, and they, they had been sober for probably a year or so.

And they were in talking to our group and they were discussing they're like, yeah, you know, all the people I went through. You know, we talk all the time. We text each other, we go out to dinner and I was sitting there thinking like, I'm not gonna make any friends here. Like, that's just not gonna happen.

And here we are, you know, I'm sitting down doing a podcast with two other guys I met in here. Our text group is humongous and there's literally. At least 20 people I can think of off the top of my head that I could call on a minutes, notice that would help me out if I needed it. And it, it truly is having that support and that accountability does it.

It is a huge factor in staying sober mm-hmm  and I think the other part to that is actually using those supports, right? Like I've worked with a lot of people that have plenty of supports, but they don't actually reach out and use them when they need to. And so part of that, Using them when you don't need them.

So that way, when you do, you already know you're already in that habit. Well, I know how many times have we had people on our text stream, you know, about to jump off the ledge and go pick up and, and they text us and all of us respond right away or people call 'em and, and that is helpful because we help talk 'em off that ledge and then they don't make that bed decision.

And then they kind of start talking through their problems that they're going through at that time. You know, a lot of us had to have, have had that same problem. And, and that goes back to, you know, some of our previous episodes about finding support and having those, that those groups. And, you know, we were talking about sponsors last episode, finding those that's a, a great resource and finding a home group and things like that to kind of build on that community that Cassie is talking about, that you find in that you need to find in early recovery.

Yeah, the, the, we've had a lot of instances with, with people reaching out within the group text and it's awesome. I mean, that was the point of the group text, you know, we're, I think we have about 20 people now, uh, which is really awesome. And, and even since all of us have left, you know, our initial, um, program that we were all three in and where we met.

We've still added people. We've had other folks that are still there that have reached out and said, Hey, um, you know, we, we just met a new person here. I think they would really benefit from this. So we'll add 'em to the text and they're always very appreciative. Um, they're always very open even though they really don't even know us, but they trust the program.

They trust the process and they trust the community and they understand that we are all in the same boat. We all can empathize with them and we are all going to be there for them. And it's, and. That relationship that we all have cannot be stressed enough. Mm-hmm  and I think it is, is vital to have something like that.

Um, when you're a part of something, you know, when, when you're going through something like this, I think it's, it is essential. Yeah, absolutely. I mean the two power, most powerful words in the English language are me too. Right. If I can sit there and talk to somebody about what I'm going through and they can genuinely sit across from me and say, yeah, me too, man.

I know what I know what you've been through. And it. Right. Like, that's really powerful and that's connection and that's what all of us are looking for. Yeah. So you've had a nice long stint in the, uh, the substance abuse field already. Do you have any long term term goals in the substance abuse field? So, I mean, I think that that's, that's an interesting question, cause I honestly haven't thought about it.

So I've been in specifically just the substance use field for. Like a year and a half or so. And really my background is in mental health. So I'm not really sure what my goals are in the future with substance use. I know what I really enjoy doing is working with my clients on an individual basis. Kind of seeing that growth.

Um, and so that's kind of where I'm at at this point is just wanting to continue doing that. Yeah. So Cassie, obviously on a daily basis, your job is to, to teach, to educate, to be a therapist, to walk, you know, anybody who walks through the store, you're gonna help be there for them. You're gonna walk them through that path.

Mm-hmm  you share a bunch of knowledge. Um, you know, that you've learned that you've experienced. And my question to you is of all the people that you have, that, that you've seen, that you've, that you've helped. Have you learned anything from them? Have you L picked up, you know, Traits, uh, uh, coping mechanisms, anything like that.

And do you apply those to your daily life? Absolutely. I mean, you know, I think one thing that I stress in my groups is for people to talk amongst each other and to talk to each other, because that's where so much growth happens. And not just me sitting there talking at people and honestly, selfishly, I kind of benefit from that too.

Right? Like there are a lot of lectures and whenever we do lectures, a lot of. For myself anyways, I do a lot of research and try to figure out like, what's the best way to spread this message. And so inevitably some of that stuff I can transfer back to myself. Um, you know, I talk a lot about vulnerability and that's something that I.

Strive really, really hard to do. And it's something that I'm constantly working at. And I think I do that lecture with every single group that comes in, um, Renee brown. Yeah. I was thinking BNE brown. BNE brown, brown. That's her hero. Love you. It is my hero. If you're hearing this, that would be awesome. She knows a, I remember watching when.

We had a lecture and being told that we're going to watch a video on vulnerability by ane brown. And I was like, come on, there are a lot of eye rolls. Yeah. I know. And then, you know, two minutes into it, you know, I'm on the edge of my seat, riveted by what this woman is saying. So if you're out there and.

You know, your, your early in sobriety or even been in sobriety a while, I would recommend looking up be Renee brown because she is awesome. And we have, uh, miss Cassie here to think for introducing her to all of us. Well, I knew about her before have her book, but you know, it is still great that Cassie introduced it to, you know, other people eye roll.

Yeah. I, yes. If you wanna make any sort of genuine relationship, that's a. That's a good to watch. Absolutely. Even not if you're in sobriety as well. I mean, just the topic itself, it's a Ted talk and it's 17 minutes and a wealth of knowledge and so much information that really anybody can apply. Yeah. And I think a lot of the lectures that I specifically do are not necessarily specifically focused on sobriety right there.

A lot of them are just life skills that sometimes fall to the wayside in active addiction. So it's really about relearning some of those skills and how do I apply those without alcohol or drugs involved in those things? I was very intrigued. I'm glad you brought that up because when I started here, I assumed that just about anything that we discussed was going to solely be focused on addiction, solely focused on maintaining sobriety.

And with that being the, the goal of all this, there were many. Discussions that, that wasn't even mentioned. Mm-hmm  so just to reiterate what you're saying, we had so many good conversations on boundaries, vulnerability, uh, you know, all kinds of techniques. And, and we, we really got, we got psychological, we got philosophical, which I love in general mm-hmm  but there were so many just things that you guys taught us that, that go to show that, you know, when you check all these boxes in, in that category, it.

Automatically reinforces your ability to stay sober. Mm-hmm  when you're, when you're handling everything else in your life appropriately. And so I, I personally really loved that approach, uh, throughout this process. Yeah. And so I think part of that has to do with the fact that this program here is for substance use and mental health.

So it's, it's a co-occurring program. So I think that's part of why you get that here is because the focus is on obviously recovery, but in order. Continue with recovery. You have to understand what was going on underneath, why the substance use became an issue. Why the anxiety was there? Why, why the depression was there?

How was I masking the PTSD symptoms? Right? Like we have to understand that underneath stuff. So that way we can continue with that long term recovery, the iceberg, the iceberg, you were waiting to say that I was waiting to say it. Can you, can you, if you don't mind, can you briefly briefly, so for those listening, every single time we would talk to Cass.

We would share, most of us would share anger and Cassie would pull out a little slip of paper and it's an iceberg and most of you have seen it. So what's above the water. That tiny little piece of ice is anger. Well, what's below that huge mat just. Enormous, you know, going, you know, iceberg, what, 50 feet underwater.

Well, you gotta think an iceberg is gigantic, but you only see about 10% of it sticking outta the water. The other 90% is underwater mm-hmm  and that's where. Everything that's causing that anger is how all the other emotions mm-hmm  that was said much more eloquently. Thank you.  you're welcome. I was in the, underneath the waters, I was stuff was, I was, it was an improv conversation.

It was an improvisation. Yeah. Yes. So I mean, yeah, I think I, so I use the anger iceberg a lot because in the evening program, I just tend to have more guys. And so wi with that. A common go-to emotion for men is anger, right? Because society tells you, you can't cry, you gotta suck it up. And an emotion that is okay is anger, right.

Whether that's physically being angry and taking it out on the sports field or whatever that looks like, right. It's okay to be angry. It's not okay to cry. Right. So that's kind of where that tool came from is wanting to use that because I did recognize that there were a lot of men in the room and anger is one of those go-to emotions that we can just so naturally.

Express to somebody, like, if I wanna show you I'm angry, I can show you I'm angry. Mm-hmm  right. If I wanna show you, I'm happy, I can show you I'm happy. But if I wanna show you that I'm feeling really guilty, how do I do that? Mm-hmm  right. That's not something that NA necessarily comes naturally. So a lot of times those more kind of complicated emotions, right?

The shame, the guilt, helplessness, hopelessness, feeling overwhelmed. Those things tend to come out as anger because we don't know how else to express them. So the reason for utilizing that tool is I have to figure out how I'm actually feeling before I can make progress and put coping skills in, because if I'm think I'm feeling angry, but really I'm feeling hurt.

Those are gonna be two different coping skills to deal with those emotions. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you've brought up working at night, working with a lot of guys, and I know some of the sessions I was. There are just, it's like it's contagious on certain nights where it's like, when we get there before our lecture starts, we, you know, get a little Chitty chatty and.

Hard to, you know, kind of ring us, reel it back in reeled all time too, you know? Do you ever see yourself, like just getting frustrated with groups when it's just like you can't get them to focus or do you get worn out on just kind of the, the shenanigans sometimes that, that go into, you know, you're thinking of, let's say you have.

You know, 15 people and it's, you know, they're showing up at six o'clock. They all worked all day. They're all a little tired and, and kind of getting that and pulling it all together. Mm-hmm  to get them to focus on what the topic is. Yeah. I mean, I think you guys have seen it in the past, right. Where, um, we kind of got off topic and, you know, I.

While I'm the professional in the room. I'm still a human. Right. And so that's something that sometimes I intentionally model those feelings of frustration or anger. Sometimes it's not intentional, but I use it as a therapeutic tool after. Right. Because I do feel angry. I do get frustrated and that's okay.

Right. It's not about the emotion, but what I do next with it. Right. So with that, I think part of it is, again, I talked earlier. How one thing I always do is wanna model vulnerability. And so I think that's one way I do it by saying, Hey, you guys, we need to pull it back together. I'm feeling really frustrated because we're not doing what we need to do.

You guys are all here for a reason. So let me do my job and help you get what you're looking to gain from here. Do you get any, um, burnout? Yeah, they were absolutely just like being like, oh, Absolutely. I mean, when you work in a field like this, where you're constantly dealing with knuckleheads, like you guys, like, of course I'm gonna get burnt out.

Right. There are some days when I'm like, Ugh, I have to talk with Carson again. Right. I'm sorry. Hold on real quick. You think you have it bad. I have to deal with myself every day. I know. That's really unfortunate. So you need to be, yeah, it does with me here. Right. But I mean, in all honesty, Burnout is kind of a part of the job that nobody talks about.

Like that nobody really talks about. You're probably gonna get burned out. Right. We talk about self-care, but we don't talk about why. And so that's something that, again, I, I try my best to work on, but again, I'm human. So naturally there are times when I get burned out. So you're saying burnout Shell's alcoholism.

I was actually gonna say burnout could be a big reason. Why people turn to alcohol. Is that exact reason that you just said mm-hmm  in whatever profession they're in or if it's their personal life? Yeah. It's just one of the many, many triggers for humans. Yeah. So thank you for saying that Robbie  honestly, I mean, I think that's why the professional program is as big as it is because it's a lot of high stress, high burnout jobs, right?

Like we have a lot of I've had doctors we've had. Um, lawyers that techs we've had lawyers. We've had a lot of people in banking. Those are all really high stress, high burnout jobs and awesome sales professionals. Yeah. Lot. Lots of sales. Yeah. They're the worst. Yeah.  oh God salesmen. They're so they're so bad salesmen.

They're the worst. It's not like being in that field. Know, I know. I mean, do you, but do you take it as a therapist then? Do you ever take it personally when you have a client that decides to leave treatment in the middle of. How do you kind of deal with that facet? So, yeah, that's, that's a really difficult one.

I've had clients that have left in the middle of treatment. I've had clients that I've had to hold really strong boundaries with, even when I didn't want to, because I knew it's what's best for them. And that means that they are gonna leave treatment. I've had clients that have passed away, um, and. That is really, really difficult to manage.

And so one thing that I'm grateful for is we have a lot of supervision in this field where I can go to my supervisor and process through what's happened. And that's also why therapists need therapists, right? Like there's a lot of stuff that we deal with, um, on a day to day basis. And we have to make sure we're practicing what we preach to everybody else.

Well, and not only do you have to process that when somebody leaves. But then you have 15 people coming to you and be like, where is Soandso? Yeah. Why are they not here? Can you tell us about 'em? Because I know that happened when I was here where we would ask a therapist or somebody in charge to be like, Hey, where's Soandso we don't see him.

They're like, well, we can't tell you, but he's okay. Or whatever you guys happen. They're they're where they need to be, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That was the first thing we would ask. I mean, cuz if you think about it, you know, you see people every day almost, it's almost like. Yes. And when someone doesn't show up, you get worried mm-hmm  and especially in an environment like this.

That adds to the worry, and you're thinking a billion reasons why they would not be here. And obviously we're gonna look to you mm-hmm  and then you have to be that barrier, that filter, and kind of calm us down without, uh, you know, saying anything that you shouldn't be saying. And, and, you know, communicating information that is confidential.

Sure. So I'm sure that's tough. Yeah. And I mean, I think we've had conversations in group two where I've had to talk about somebody that's passed away, whether y'all knew them or not, but they're a part of our community. And so we talk about that and again, just being super intentional about how I feel in that moment and just making it okay.

To feel whatever it is we're feeling. Right. Because that's the biggest part of, in my opinion, recovery, is that we just have to feel the fields, right. Because for so long people, stuff that down with addiction and. It's okay. To feel whatever we're feeling, even if it's uncomfortable, right. There's a reason why we're feeling.

So we'll do a final question here, um, as we appreciate your time and coming in, and we don't wanna keep you here all night, you know, just as we're trying to kind of, we're all still in early sobriety and, and we're trying to get that message out to early sobriety, you know, as a therapist, to, to our listeners who may be struggling, uh, in early sobriety or haven't sought that help yet.

And they're still out there struggl. You know, what kind of advice or, or would you give those people? I mean, I think for the people themselves is that, I mean, you're worthy of treatment. You're worthy of asking for that help because so many people struggle with feeling like, you know what, I'm just an addict.

I'm just an alcoholic effort, right? Like there's no point it's not gonna get better. So why bother it does get better. Um, there's millions of people that recover from. Daily. And then the other thing I would say is to the families is, you know, there are resources out there to help you help your loved one.

And I can certainly give you guys some information to put up on your website and all of that stuff to provide those people. Yeah. Because families hold a lot of weight in this, right. I mean, I think most of you in here can speak to the impact that your family has had on your sobriety. And so that would be the other people that I would reach out to is just the people that have loved ones that are struggling, know that there are resources for you to help your loved ones out.

So you don't have to continue to see them struggle. Yeah. And I think that's another thing, like you were talking about family. While I was going through treatment here, and I'm still kind of, I'm still doing some stuff here, but early on the therapist and everything, they reach out to your family as well to mm-hmm , you know, keep them updated on your progress and let them know how you're going to, and probably too to just make sure that they're being supportive and they're providing structure.

Away from the facility as well. Yeah. And I just to kind of clarify that pat a little bit is for our program itself, what we do when we reach out is really just provide, like, these are the resources that we have that we expect you to go to as a family member, because you've been dealing with a lot of crap.

Mm-hmm  so these are the things that we are asking you to do as your loved one is in treatment. And the reason for that is they've been struggling, your, your family member. You know, dealt with addiction and they've been in that fight or flight response for however long. So they have their own healing to do as well.

So it's not even necessarily a report card. It's more of like, let me support them while I'm also supporting the client because the goal is to support the whole family. All right, Cassie, we truly appreciate it. The knowledge you just shared with us is so valuable and it's gonna be so valuable to our listeners.

If any of you out there have questions for Cassie, shoot us an email. Send us a message on Twitter or Instagram, 12 ounces as variety, podcast, or 12 ounces sobriety pod@gmail.com. Once again, thank you very much, Cassie. And you have a wonderful day. Thanks Cass. Absolutely you guys for having me. Well, that was our first ever interview.

And I must say, I think it went fantastic. The knowledge that she shared was just unbelievable. It was awesome. I could, I don't think it could have gone any better, to be honest with you, you know, we really appreciate her and, um, and yeah, I, hopefully I think everyone's gonna get a lot out of that. Yeah. And if you're at home and you just listen to that, take a lot of what she said to heart.

I mean, she is a professional, she deals with substance abuse users. Every day and she's been to school for that. She has educated herself on that. She's continuing to educate herself on. Because, so she really knows what she's talking about. We're just sitting here kind of giving you our opinions on how we're going through early sobriety, but that's why we wanna start bringing you people like that who truly have the professional knowledge to share with you on kind of the right steps to take in early sobriety it.

And even if you're not in early sobriety, if you're somebody that been in sobriety for a long time, you could still take some stuff out there. Even if you've been sober for 30 years, you're still needing to work that program because alcoholism or drug abuse is a disease that never truly goes away and there is not a cure for it.

So with that, we'll wrap it up. Um, next episode, we're going to be reviewing. The book called alcohol explained by William Porter. We will be discussing that and our thoughts on it. It's really got some great information in there. If you have a chance and you wanna check it out and read it. And then before you hear our thoughts on it, feel free message us on or follow us or whatever on Instagram or Twitter, 12 ounces sobriety podcast, or like I said, previously, our email address or email addressed, well balances, sobriety, pod, gmail.com.

And thank you very much. Thank you. Bon VO.